gadget445 Says:

Aug 1, 2008 - Wait so the M1 is bad because of its flat bottom set close to the ground??? funny... the M113 also has a flat bottom close to the ground. Not that I do not like the M113, I just think that you need to think before you type.

BlacktailFA Says:

Aug 2, 2008 - gadget445,The M1's belly is thinner and made of steel, which is more brittle than aluminum (i.e., it spalls and/or shatters more easily).By itself, this makes the M113 more mine-survivable than the M1.

gadget445 Says:

Aug 4, 2008 - ummmm...... Aluminum is more brittle. Also, after research i read that the M113's had a steel plate in the bottom for mine protection.Again, think AND RESEARCH before you type.

gadget445 Says:

Aug 5, 2008 - I also must comment on this:Steel is an alloy and aluminum is an element??true aluminum is an element but 5083 Aluminum is an alloy also. very rarely do you find pure aluminum used to make anything.

BlacktailFA Says:

Aug 5, 2008 - gadget445,Aluminum is softer than steel, which is why it has so many industrial applications that steel cannot be effectively used for. That's why it's used for beverage cans instead of steel --- it's more malleable due to it's higher softness.Not that any schoolchild couldn't have told you that...

gadget445 Says:

Aug 5, 2008 - true it is softer but once finished, it is less flexible than steel. Steel wire can be bent and unbent repeatedly but Aluminum wire can be bent once but upon bending back, it begins to shear apart. Thus it is more brittle

BlacktailFA Says:

Aug 5, 2008 - Even so, 5083 Aluminum is more than 95% Aluminum.It's also true that Aluminum never corrodes through, while steel always does. That's why most of the LAV-25s built just 20 years ago are completely ruined and unusable (the USMC used them in steel-corroding saltwater environments), while the 40-year-old M113 Gavin is anticipated to see service for more than 70 years into the future.

Pirofutura Says:

Aug 9, 2008 - Im gonna some up the facts here boys. Aslav vs M113; M113 is the better APC. though to call the ASLAV/stryker/lav an apc is pushin it. yes the ASLAV is better in urban enviroments, but then again most armies are returnin to the idea of armoured trucks, which is essentially what the ASLAV is. lets also remember somethin else; the Australian Army purchased something like 600 aslavs in the 90s, yet they are spendin $600 million on upgrading 350 M113s.

tankguy Says:

Aug 19, 2008 - The #1 reality of the M-113. It is being retired by the Army.

BlacktailFA Says:

Aug 23, 2008 - tankguy,Incorrect. The Army's announcement is that they will be rotated into reserve units.

tankguy Says:

Aug 23, 2008 - The aluminum/magnesium armor still used in M113s also burns when it is struck with AT mines/shaped charges.I know, even you rabid 113 fanboys aren't trying to suggest that it is more survivable than an Abrams. That is beyond the pale even for you. Abrams have bolt on belly armor and newly designed seat to safley handle mine strikes.

BlacktailFA Says:

Aug 24, 2008 - tankguy,Aluminum does burn when penetrated by shaped charges, as do all the other substances, given the fact that the jet of molten metal projected by a shaped charge is over 10000 degrees Fahrenheit --- that's TWICE the temperature at which all steels burn.Steel is also rigid, brittle, and shears into shards because of this when exposed to such pressures, creating massive spalling. The M113 Gavin's 5083 Aluminum is twice as soft as RHA steel, and thus produces that much less spalling.

dynmicpara Says:

Aug 24, 2008 - Corrupt VCSA Cody tried to give $11B to GDLS where he wants to work now that he's retired.CSA General Casey has rejected that BS stunt to ruin the U.S. Army with wheeled trucks.Again, you don't know what-the-fuck-you-are-talking-about. Maybe if you were actually IN a military outfit you'd know something.However, its always a pleasure to DELETE your boyish comments, fucktard.

dynmicpara Says:

Aug 24, 2008 - Don't forget that the thin steel of Stryker trucks are already failing and once cracked they will have to be thrown away. The THICK aluminum alloy on the M113 Gavins do not wear out and were built to last forever. This is the ideal STARTING POINT for an armored vehicle with enough volume to carry an infantry squad or a pallet of supplies, whatever etc. that saves weight so MAXIMUM APPLIQUE' ARMOR can be fitted unlike starting with thin steel that breaks and rusts

motojeff Says:

Aug 30, 2008 - Then why are all of the M113A1 and A2 APCs getting upgraded and sent back into service with A3 technology? Your profile says this???? Are you even in a military "outfit" as you say?Occupation: Military ReformSchools: College GraduateCompanies: Mankind

dynmicpara Says:

Aug 30, 2008 - The M113A3 Gavin HULL only gets mounting bolts for applique armor; it remains unchanged. The M113A3 Super Gavins have high hardness steel added all around and RPG pre-det caging.Can you even READ any of the many web pages we have posted detailing this?

dynmicpara Says:

Aug 30, 2008 - And one more reminder, THE WHOLE POINT OF THE THICK M113 GAVIN HULL IS THAT IT WILL LAST FOREVER and not rust, crack and become unserviceable as thin steel LAV hulls do. What is so hard to understand that the basic hull is the automotive chassis source and the STARTING POINT for what you MAKE THE M113 GAVIN INTO by armor, armament and automotive upgrades. Do you understand how to change something that is made to be easy to modify? Or can you only see what is given?

dynmicpara Says:

Aug 30, 2008 - One last point; I am a commissioned officer in the military NOW with 27 years; almost longer than YOU HAVE BEEN ALIVE ON EARTH. Unless you are lying on your profile, you were 11 when I joined; not even in high school. Instead of being a snot you might ASK about the A2 to A3 Gavin conversion program before looking like a fool in public making ignorant remarks.

GordonofSeattle Says:

Aug 31, 2008 - Strykers are an embarrassing example of the lack of objectivity that goes in to armament decisions.Abrams are good machines but too heavy and cumbersome. I think that light tanks are a better tool for power projection

BlacktailFA Says:

Sep 1, 2008 - GordonofSeattle,The whole problem started when the (then) US Army Chief of Staff, Eric "Rick" Shinseki came up with the brilliant idea of putting the entire US Army on wheels, and forced the LAV III into service --- the whole "Interim Armored Vehicle" initiative was only a smokescreen, as evidenced by the testing & evaluation and procurement methods used.The vehicle we know today as the "Stryker" is a waste product of this objective.

BlacktailFA Says:

Sep 1, 2008 - That steel won't last very long once the extra 7 tons of weight in modifications gets fitted to the Strykers.Hell, they're all nearly DOUBLE the weight that the MOWAG Piranha suspension (that they use) was designed to carry anyway!

Gouldenman Says:

Sep 4, 2008 - I have to say I love the m113, which is why I was intrigued by the vid, but u use out of context and inappropriate information for ur arguments, like with the tracks and t-34's completely different to modern tracks, of course any idiot who suggest tracks break easily are, well idiots, but m113's do throw tracks quite often, it is one of the leading causes of injury lol at trim vain though:PGreat vid though, thanks redy for the next... oh and anyone who thinks of those myths should read up...

BlacktailFA Says:

Sep 4, 2008 - The T-34 track is not out of context, because the quality of the alloys and design of the tracks, and the Anti-Tank weapons that Task Force Smith used against those T-34s,are in direct proportion to the quality of the M113 Gavin's tracks and export-grade RPG-7s.As for M113s throwing tracks, I've never heard of it being a frequent problem before. Even so, the M113 has NOTHING on the Stryker --- Stryker drivers are MANDATED to never exceed 35mph, 'cause they're starting to throw whole WHEELS!!!

Gouldenman Says:

Sep 4, 2008 - Hmm... Sorry man, u learn somethiing new everyday, thanks for the added info to my arsenal, and yeh strykers are bad... i rekon the ASLAV is probably better, but you can't go past the m113, it is the best APC out there, and with modern armour it could keep going forever, and i hope it does :P thanks mate

BlacktailFA Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - gadget445,True, but it can also fire HE, HE-FRAG, and APDS rounds in order to inexpensively (and VERY effectively) engage non-Battle Tank targets.